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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I believe It is unlawful
act and there must be some regulation, I am not talking here that it will
become known very well and this provider will lost some customers… and
some other provider will claim that they voip friendly and get some more
customer on it </span></font><font size=2 color=navy face=Wingdings><span
lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:navy'>J</span></font><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
serusers-bounces@iptel.org [mailto:serusers-bounces@lists.iptel.org] <b><span
style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Cesc<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, November 02, 2005
1:32 PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Nils Ohlmeier<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b> serusers@lists.iptel.org; Roger
Lewau; serusers-bounces@lists.iptel.org; Iqbal<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [Serusers] voip
charging by ISP's</span></font><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Well, i think the ISP may care if they are also providing similar
bussiness. They won't probably be able to charge neither the voip user or voip
provider, but they can do some harm. Identifying the rtp streams and sip
signalling is not sooo difficult ... then, block a few messages, add delay and
jitter to the rtp (or udp in general ...) and you've got a bad service,
aparently coming from the voip provider. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>There is software to detect and do all the above (one was presented in
VON this fall) ... <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>There was an article in IEEE Spectrum (sept, october, nov ... can't
remember).<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>And all the tricks Nils mentions ... hey, maybe the advanced user, but
my mom, no way! And then you need software that supports all those tricks ...
that is even further away. In this sense, i think carriers have the winning
side ... <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Cesc<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span class=gmailquote><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>On 11/2/05, <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Nils
Ohlmeier</span></b> <<a href="mailto:lists@ohlmeier.org">lists@ohlmeier.org</a>>
wrote:</span></font></span> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>On Wednesday 02 November 2005 14:28, Iqbal wrote:<br>
> I agree, I mean the next step would be to charge ebay and yahoo per <br>
> transaction, just wondering how easy it would be for ISP to setup a<br>
> monitor and a billing model on this<br>
<br>
I think the ISP should not care what it is transporting. The snail mail also<br>
does not look into what they are devlivering to charge you differently <br>
(except express delivery but thats another story).<br>
<br>
As soon as an ISP starts to look into the traffic from the user, the users<br>
will invent uncounted ways of fooling the ISP (use non-standard ports; use<br>
standard ports for the "wrong" service; use proxies; encrypt the
traffic; and <br>
finally combine all this). All I can say to the ISP: happy debugging!<br>
And in the end I would be interested in how a court would judge about the<br>
outcoming bills (who has to prove what?) :-)<br>
<br>
Nils<br>
<br>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
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