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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Hello Greger<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I am surprised that you
argue that 302s is not the standard call forward scenario when this is how it
is implemented in almost all sip equipment (haven’t seen any device who
does it differently). Customer will punch in cfwd (like *72<number>) in
their phone and expect the operator (me) to forward the call to the destination
at their expense. This is nothing new or strange. 302s signal that an UA has temporarily
been moved and can be reached somewhere else, how is that not call forwarding? Also,
I would never expect an UA to send back an email address in an IP telephony system,
even if it is theoretically possible. I would expect it to send back a SIP address;
everything else is not reachable through the protocol of SIP and makes absolutely
no sense.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Most Voip customers are
not techies and they are not rfc knowledgeable and could not care any less about
how the forwarding is made. They would not be upset that their 302 generate a
cost, this is the expected behaviour for this service.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Kind regards<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Roger<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:windowtext'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:windowtext;font-weight:bold'>Från:</span></font></b><font
size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;color:windowtext'> serusers-bounces@lists.iptel.org
[mailto:serusers-bounces@lists.iptel.org] <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>För
</span></b>Greger V. Teigre<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Skickat:</span></b> den 11 septembe</span></font><font
size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;
color:windowtext'>r 2006 11:59<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Till:</span></b> Roger Lewau<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Kopia:</span></b> serusers@iptel.org;
jh@tutpro.com<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Ämne:</span></b> Re: [Serusers] Handling 302
responses</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Hi Roger,<br>
I think that was Juha's point: we don't. <br>
302 was created to enable a user agent to communicate back to the other user
agent that it can be reached somewhere else. Thus, your server should relay the
302 and the receiving user agent should then decide what to do. Some UAs
immediate initiate a new call, while others (e.g.software agents) may pop up a
question to the user: "Callee is not available, but can be reached at
location" (which of course may well be an international PSTN call that can
be expensive).<br>
Some UAs also have options that can be set: How to handle redirects<br>
<br>
Server-centric forwarding can be better handled by user preferences and loading
av pairs.<br>
<br>
That being said, I remember a thread a while ago with a discussion on how to
turn a 302 into a forwarding. I don't remember the outcome, but it is probably
possible, although not according to the RFCs. You do have some problems
though, e.g. if the UA sends back an email uri etc.<br>
<br>
And of course, as people tend to follow RFCs, you will probably get one angry
customer if he realizes that his 302 generates a cost. If you have control over
the UA and have decided to use 302 instead of the more standardized call
forward scenario, you really are making problems for yourself.<br>
g-)<br>
<br>
Roger Lewau wrote: <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>Hello Juha and Andrey<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>302 "Moved temporarily" is definately
about forwarding/redirecting calls. This is how the vast majority of all
IP phones and ATAs handle call forwarding. It might not be the intended use of
302 according to RFCs, even if I see nothing that says otherwise, but this is
how it is used in end devices today. This brings us back to my original
question. How do you guys handle 302 redirection so that costs are charged to
the callee.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>Kind regards<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>Roger <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>-----Original
Message-----<br>
From: "Andrey Kouprianov" <a href="mailto:andrey.kouprianov@gmail.com"><andrey.kouprianov@gmail.com></a><br>
To: <a href="mailto:serusers@iptel.org">serusers@iptel.org</a><br>
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 12:51:09 +0700<br>
Subject: Re: [Serusers] Handling 302 responses<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>You can also use 302
responses to gather some information about the<br>
remote party. Contacts returned in the response are not necessarily<br>
the SIP URI's. I've tried using mail addresses, SIP tel: URI's and<br>
HTTP URLs too.<br>
<br>
So, if the remote party is Busy at the moment, but has other ways to<br>
let u contact them, 302 is one of the answers to this.<br>
<br>
On 9/11/06, Juha Heinanen <a href="mailto:jh@tutpro.com"><jh@tutpro.com></a>
wrote:<br>
> Roger Lewau writes:<br>
><br>
> > In my mind that statement is completely off the wall, it is not
the<br>
> > requesting client that should be responsible for establishing
the forwarded<br>
> > call, it never is in the rest of the telecom industry so why
should it be<br>
> > the case for SIP?<br>
><br>
> 302 is not about "forwarded call". it just tells the
caller that the<br>
> callee is at some other uri, which the caller may or may not wish to<br>
> contact. in many pstn networks, you can hear an announcement that
the<br>
> number you tried is not in use and you should try another number<br>
> instead.<br>
><br>
> if callee wants to "forward" calls, he has other means for that
purpose,<br>
> for example, his phone can forward the invite to some other uri or he<br>
> may configure his proxy to do so.<br>
><br>
> -- juha<br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> Serusers mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:Serusers@lists.iptel.org">Serusers@lists.iptel.org</a><br>
> <a href="http://lists.iptel.org/mailman/listinfo/serusers" target="_blank">http://lists.iptel.org/mailman/listinfo/serusers</a><br>
><br>
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</div>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><font size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></pre><pre
style='text-align:center'><font size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'>
<hr size=4 width="90%" align=center>
</span></font></pre><pre><font size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Serusers mailing list<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><a
href="mailto:Serusers@lists.iptel.org">Serusers@lists.iptel.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><a
href="http://lists.iptel.org/mailman/listinfo/serusers">http://lists.iptel.org/mailman/listinfo/serusers</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre></div>
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